On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Andrew Sweger wrote:
> Hi, Shlomi. We haven't heard from you (in this forum) since April. It
> doesn't sound like anything has changed since then. What follows is
merely
> my opinion (which carries very little weight in the grand scheme of
> things).
>
> What has not changed most notably is your attitude toward addressing
what
> you see as problems. Most of your email dealt with simply reha****ng all
> the things you see as problems and complaining about being persecuted by
> the Perl community.
I did not complain about being persecuted by the Perl community. I gave
the facts for why I reached a dead-end in my attempt to revamp
learn.perl.org.
The intent of my E-mail was to criticize learn.perl.org, and to get a
common understanding that it needs a great deal of rework. (or that it
needs to be replaced with my site or with something else).
> This is not an effective means of swaying opinion. You
> present little new information or encouragement that might draw others
in
> to even look at your work. What I heard (as in, this is the impression
> left by your message): the material on learn.perl.org sucks (and by
> extension, those responsible),
I never accused the people responsible for learn.perl.org of being
incompetent people in any way. I only said they were not responsive.
> mine is better, why doesn't anyone listen
> to me or adopt my material.
>
> I understand how frustrated you are. But I also see that you have done a
> lot of work and are clearly sticking to your guns over a long period of
> time. I applaud your perseverance and determination to help develop
> something good for the Perl community. Since your goal (as I see it) is
to
> provide better learning resources for those just beginning to learn
Perl,
> I think the best judge of that material are the beginners. Give us good
> arguments for why we want to pass along your site to the beginners we
know
> (through user groups, for example). Instead of insulting us, tell us why
> this is a good thing for beginners.
>
Very well, the http://perl-begin.berlios.de/
site:
1. Has a crisp, attractive design, while still being lightweight and
responsive. (God bless CSS).
2. Is fully standards compliant (XHTML 1.0 Strict).
3. Provides links to many online resources:
- Online Tutorials
- Core Do***entation
- Collections of Articles
- Mailing Lists
- Web Forums
- IRC Channels
- Central Perl Resources
4. Contains a world-editable Wiki, and has a mailing list dedicated for
beginners.
5. Covers issues of installing Perl on various platforms.
6. Covers common uses of Perl (CGI, Sys Admin, etc.)
7. Source code is online, and the maintainer (me) is responsive to
visitors' comments.
8. There is a book section, but it does not stick out of the front page.
9. The front page is dedicated to an introduction to the site and to the
Perl language.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Shlomi Fish wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > By contrast, http://perl-begin.berlios.de/
has none of these
deficiencies.
> > Yet, it is not the big wigs' endorsed site.
> >
> > This poor state cannot last too long without having a bad effect on
the
> > community of newcomers. But how can I do anything about it, without
> > responsiveness from the beginners-workers?
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish shlomif@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
doctors away.
Falk Fish
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