Re: New sections to the Standard Pascal website

On 2008-04-30, thomas.mertes@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 <thomas.mertes@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> > One design criteria for Seed7 is: It should be usable without IDE.
>> > That does not mean that I am aggainst IDEs, but IMHO simple things
>> > should stay simple. I am sceptical aggainst languages which are
>> > only usable with an IDE.
>>
>> I know very few systems that don't come with a commandline compiler. In
the
>> Smalltalk realm there might be some, but in general a cmdline compiler
is
>> always there.
>
> There is some misunderstanding here. I did not speak of IDEs
> without commandline compilers. IMHO much of the logic which
> should be somwhere in the program is managed in the IDEs now.
> This takes some burden from the programmers shoulders, but it
> makes other things more complex. E.g.: Moving from an IDE to
> another. I have seen people which try to move a makefile
> build process to Visual-C and also people which try to migrate
> a Visual-C project to Eclipse. 

This goes for any build process. IDE integrated or not. Of course one can
try to cut down on the amount of work to be done (e.g. like a lot of
pascal
compilers that can compile a program by just passing the mainmodule), but
this has nothing to do with the IDE or not.

> Without the 'right' IDE some programs are useless. For a long time it
was a
> goal to make programming languages more ****table between operating
systems
> and hardware. Now this goal is more or less reached (at least with some
> programming languages), but instead some programs start to depend on the
> IDE. With Seed7 I want to be more or less IDE independent.

IDEs are im****tant for productivity. 

>> Personally I don't think they lost ground. It is simply a new
application
>> (or direction) for programming. IMHO it stems more from the sysadmin
side of the
>> IT spectrum than from the programmer side.
>
> I have seen big programs done with scripting languages. 

I also still have nightmares about them :-)

> They are done by 'programmers' which just use perl or some other
language.
> Belive me, write only languages are used for programs which were
> programmed with compiled languages in the past.

(I latex2html, aarggh, the horror!)

Not really. People messed around with copy-and-paste style in various
basics
too in the past. Scripting languages are just the logical follow up to
those.