Re: The strengths of FORTH

"William James" <w_a_x_man@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:b96ba098-40a1-4e7d-8a63-e86b262e3143@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Mar 27, 1:01 pm, "Robert Miller" <rsmil...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> I have followed with considerable interest, the thread 'The Promise of 
>> FORTH'
>> started by Johan Thomas.  Much has been made of FORTH's perceived
>> shortcomings
>
> "perceived shortcomings"
> "PERCEIVED shortcomings"
> You imply that Forth has only perceived shortcomings!
> No real ones!
> It was created by God Almighty!
>

As there is little or no unaminity here with regard to any claimed 
shortcomings in FORTH, I take that as an indication that the shortcomings 
are to some degree a matter of perception.

>>    but as these are mostly inherent, there is little likelihood
>> that any significant changes can be made.
>
> A significant change has been made.  Most Forths have
> local variables.  However, the boneheads superstitiously
> avoid using them (it is feared that they may cause
> cancer).
>
SwiftX for the MSP430 doesn't.  If it did I would use it.  If I  felt the 
need, I could probably implement local variables myself.  It isn't a big 
issue for me as I can get the results I want by running a deeper stack.

> And the language Factor has made even more significant
> changes.
>
> The boneheads, the mindless, the drones, the
> embedded-controller toilet-flusher programmers
> want Forth to be as crude and primitive as possible.
>

Simplicity has its advantages.  It seems to me that there is a trend
toward 
making languages more complex in order to restrict programming activity to

'professional' programmers.  I am fiirst and formost a hardware designer, 
not a programmer.  FORTH as it is suits me just fine.

> [...]
>> As to the perceived disadvantages of FORTH, the readability and
>> maintainability issue can be dealt with by maintaining a bit of 
>> discipline
>> in commenting.  I am certain that anyone here would have no trouble
>> following or modifying any of my code even though it was written for a 
>> hobby
>> application. (Doubtless my factoring and my studious avoidance of 
>> variables
>
> Did God tell you to avoid variables?  Did your mommy?
> You deliberately and smugly made your code less readable
> because bonehead Forth "gurus" told you to.  Talk about
> blind faith!
>

Would you dare to be so rude in person?   My decision to restrict use of 
variables comes from the limited RAM on the MSP430 and a need for RAM 
storage for other purposes.  My code, regardless of language, is very 
readable and exceptionally well commented.

>> would draw hoots of derision from some though.)
>>
>> As to getting FORTH known to the wider community, I am at somewhat of a
>> loss.  Certainly encouraging code sharing would be helpful - if the 
>> shared
>> code was well done and well documented.  Maybe FORTH Inc. should be
>> providing T-shirts displaying their Logo with each SwiftX or SwiftForth
>
> This is a good illustration of the childish mentality
> of bonehead Forthers.

Obviously, my background isn't in marketing.  If you have some better
ideas 
on how to get the word out lets hear them.  Or are you just as boneheaded
as 
you are accusing me of being? Take a valium!