Re: advantages of forth over other languages

Andreas Klimas <klimas@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes Re: advantages of forth over other
languages

[ .. agreed with ..]

> *) to inspect my running code it must be compiled, linked, started
>    in an debugger environment. setting breakpoints and starting
>    the application. singlestep to the place in question (not
>    debugging, simply showing if it does what I expect) and
>    might see a wrong thing. okay, leave debugger, start editor
>    change text - compile, link ... and so on.
>    to have an interactive language like Forth where I could
>    check things quickly is the most striking feature, for me.
>    interactivity in Forth is even better than in Smalltalk.

I acknowledge this for my Linux environment (how I hate/dread gdb!), 
but MS's Visual C++ environment under Windows is almost nice enough 
to be useful. And some things I have to do to debug DLL's would be
nearly impossible with *only* Forth tools. OTOH, the Forth side of a
DLL interface problem is always lots and lots simpler than the C side. 

I would say that the Visual studio toolset is at least as nice as
a good Forth compiler environment. However, once you have a difficult
compiler problem, in VC you may have absolutely no idea what is wrong
or how to fix it. Recent example: I found that with full optimization
the realft() function of Numerical Recipes in C gave the wrong results,
namely all NaN's (of course I tested from the Forth side :-) 
Other NRC functions tested ok. Without optimization the code was 
correct, but 3 times slower (for all the 200+ functions!). So how would
a newby know how to ferret out this problem, fix it, and retain speed
where it matters (it can't be done by just staring a wizzard, point
and click)? And do they teach young programmers nowadays how CPU's and 
FPU's work, and what a phrase like "improve float constistency" might 
mean? As a Forth person, you (have to) know all about the bits and 
the bytes from day one...

> as with every unfamiliar paradigma, practice is needed to grasp
> the advantages. it's better not to use the old habits.
> one must be willing to master all those _different_ concepts.

I think this is a good one. Choose your weapons, and *really* learn
how to use them. Too many layers, and you may get stuck without
a clue how to make things work when something is not (yet) right
in the ****ny bright machinery.

[..]

-marcel