> Depend on the users accessing one machine. Those are not Personal so
> at least a few users should be there and well if I look at CATIA then
> I just can say, amazingly.....
CATIA 5 is now almost a windows program (well i runs on solaris and
maybe
other unices but thats not a priority anymore).
> > [ ] Is it a consequence of the technical
> > brilliance of C++/Java/C# and Eclipse/Netbeans?
>
> x of course it is ;-)
I know you liked this. Specially the C++ part.
> The other really big players in the language development areas are
> universities. They can afford spending years on such things, they have
> cheap programmers, and a funding and as long as they get enouhg papers
> out of the development they are quite fine. Does anyone bet
> that Haskell or Ocaml would be that good without such funding?
Yes. But i'm still waiting for somebody who has tried to write a large
competitive
program in this langauges. A few years back (before i started hacking
SmallEiffel)
i asked for a real world program with multithreading, network, GUI and
at least
400.000 LOC of code (to see if the compiler can handle it). There was
nothing even
close to it. The largest Ocaml was 50000 LOC. That doesn't say
anything about the
quality of the compiler (i learned it the hard was with SmallEiffel).
So i don't bite here. Universities are by definition good for research
(at least they
should) but are they able to implement good development tools? I don't
believe it.
I haven't seen it.
> Well tool development is expensive and you either have to ask for a
> high price to cover your costs or you have to sell large
> quantities. It seems that most people are very happy with the state of
> the tools
Are they? Isn't it that reality is just disappointing enough so that
people
do not for more at the moment. I hear they screaming. Especially when
it
comes to Cell-XBox games and multithreading programming. Nobody is
satisfied
in this area, because for many use cases the traditional tools do not
really help here (using multithreading in games is much harder then
using
it to speed up a Ruby on Rails webserver).
> and if we look over our "programmer" lenses then we have to
> see that we're a minority and every year more we get less and less in
> comparison to the "users". The time where everyone getting hands to a
> computer has been a hacker are gone. And so the tools for development
are getting less
> and less important.
Sure but there have never been so much "programmers" in the world.
Almost in every family you have at least one website owner. And the
chance
that he had at least a look at PHP source code is high.
> I doubt if some has the choise of spending their time with computers
> they prefer nearly everything else but programming. I bet for most
> users people doing programming are exotic at best and dangerous or
> incompetent usually. (hey this ..... program does not work....) ....
For me people who do sports or work on there cars or guys who spend
half of
there life hunting down ladies in the local disco are strange. So
what?
It's not that strange and it's not lossing ground.
> I'm not that critical. Eiffel will be of high value to just a few, and
> the software written in it will still exist and those using it will
> always see it's advantages....
Sure, maybe i stay for many years with my eiffel dialect (i hope i
can).
But this was not the question of this thread. The question is if there
is a
future. This hits the question what is a dead language? Everyone has
it's own
definition. Mine is that only a language that has many new
developments,
new projects and is able to keep up with new technologies (Eiffel for
Cell CPU's).
I'm not looking at it in the way of an individuell living being but
with a view
on the species itself. And there i don't see a future. It's like
mankind in the
movie "Children of men" there everything is also still alive but
without future.
Eiffel is dead, the Eiffelists are just to busy programming to realize
it.
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