llothar <llothar@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> I can only tell about the developments in the cost-free eiffel world
> at these
> days. And there wasn't any communication. I remember this crazy
> russian guy
> who rewrote the FOX GUI library tens of thousands of lines before
> asking about
> this project on either the FOX or the Eiffel lists.
Well how many C programmer have asked some C vendor. I bet this
weren't much. And so this guys have acted as usual (and which had and
works for C) they sat down and wrote software. So I can not see how
they have done anything for harming Eiffel
>
>> got choices. today it is reduced to more or less
>> MSVC, Eclipse, gcc, gdb.
>
> Well you forget NetBeans. But then we are really close to what is
> there.
>
>> And the tool situaion on commercial unices is even worse (hard to
>> believe but try to get a decent IDE running under AIX). The things the
>> Unix vendors have tried have just vanished (who the hell knows why it
>> is named KDE?)
>
> Yes. But the whole situation on commerical unices is worse. Not just
> the
> tool situation. With 50000 AIX installations worldwide you can't do
> anything great.
Depend on the users accessing one machine. Those are not Personal so
at least a few users should be there and well if I look at CATIA then
I just can say, amazingly.....
>
> We can discuss how this come.
>
> [ ] Is it a consequence of the technical
> brilliance of C++/Java/C# and Eclipse/Netbeans?
x of course it is ;-)
>
> [x] Is it the consequence of free software that kills competition
> and lead to cost free monopolized markets?
there is always a cost, and some are paying for it.
And if one sees who drives the development than I'd argue that are
those willing and able to spend on "programmers". Those have surely
good reasons to support development. Be it just to be unkind to other
in the IT-area ;-)
The other really big players in the language development areas are
universities. They can afford spending years on such things, they have
cheap programmers, and a funding and as long as they get enouhg papers
out of the development they are quite fine. Does anyone bet
that Haskell or Ocaml would be that good without such funding?
>
> [ ] Is it because tool development is so expensive that
> there is no other way?
Well tool development is expensive and you either have to ask for a
high price to cover your costs or you have to sell large
quantities. It seems that most people are very happy with the state of
the tools and if we look over our "programmer" lenses then we have to
see that we're a minority and every year more we get less and less in
comparison to the "users". The time where everyone getting hands to a
computer has been a hacker are gone. And so the tools for development are
getting less
and less important.
I doubt if some has the choise of spending their time with computers
they prefer nearly everything else but programming. I bet for most
users people doing programming are exotic at best and dangerous or
incompetent usually. (hey this ..... program does not work....) ....
Eiffel still has it's merits, but the others have taken over. Just see
on how active the D area is..... and indeed D is a nice thing, but it
still lacks any decent IDE. I'd argue that we are better placed in it
if we look at ISE. That's quite a nice thing...., browsing and
debuggin is kind of fun in it ;-). Well SmartEiffel has nothing
compared to that but it still has DBC ;-)..
I'm not that critical. Eiffel will be of high value to just a few, and
the software written in it will still exist and those using it will
always see it's advantages....
Happy eiffeling
Friedrich
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