Re: Thoughts on MF COBOL, Unix, and RDBMS

"James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletethis@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:rhrTj.115671$Cj7.48467@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Pete Dashwood wrote:
>> I have some programs written in Fujitsu COBOL (generated by a tool)
that 
>> run in a Windows environment, read ISAM and write a RDB using embedded 
>> SQL and ODBC.
>> <snip>
>
> Caveat - other than being a name I haven't a clue what C-ISAMs are.
>
> Pete : You *think* the compiler *might* be Microsoft rebadged MF COBOL
:-
>
> (a) Are you dealing with an end-user who only knows the bare bones, and 
> whether amicably or for whatever other reason, has parted company with
the 
> contractors who wrote the application; or,
>
> (b) They do have programmers
>
> Both (a) and (b) above could deny the compiler doesn't have SQL -
because 
> it was never used. (See explanation below).
>
> Unfortunately I chucked my copies of Microsoft COBOL Versions 4 and 5
away 
> ages ago, but I still have diskettes and manuals for Micro Focus (DOS) 
> Version 3.1.
>
> Can you establish which compiler they have :-
>
> - does the term 'Programmer's Workbench' ring bells with their
programmers
> - I think when the application starts up it should contain a banner
saying 
> 'Microsoft COBOL Version .....'
>
> Back to Micro Focus (DOS) Version 3.1. If you asked me, "Does it have
SQL" 
> my response would have been "No" - FALSE. It does. Just that I wasn't 
> aware of it, because it's not whistles and bells like Net Express.
>
> Briefly, this is what V 3.1 says about SQL :-
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Programs can be created using SQL to access DBs that comply with IBM's
SQL 
> Precompiler Services Architecture
>
> - IBM - IBM OS/2 Extended Edition DB Manager - refer to IBM
do***entation
>
> - Microsoft SQL Server with Embedded SQL for COBOL Developers Kit -
refer 
> to Microsoft for do***entation
>
> The sup****t is dependent on various system directive (some 17), all of 
> which begin "SQL".
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Whether the ODBC drivers are obtained from IBM or MS I don't know. As 
> there are just two, they *might* be included in the Version 3.1 package.
>
> To provide increased compatibility M/F provides the following extensions
- 
> INCLUDE, DECLARE TABLE, UNDECLARED HOST VARIABLES, QUALIFIED HOST 
> VARIABLES, HOST VARIABLE GROUPS AND INDICATOR ARRAYS, THE NOT OPERATOR 
> (symbol); the symbol used is the top right corner of a box.
>
> Back to Microsoft. I switched from RM/COBOL V 1.? with Radio Shack to a 
> Compaq PC with Microsoft COBOL Version 3. DEFINITELY a Microsoft
product, 
> regardless of who may have written the compiler for them. The manuals
were 
> written in plain English - nothing like the gobbledy-gook from the 
> Committee for Programming Language 22, Version 4.
>
> I upgraded to MS Versions 4 and 5, which as Richard pointed out years
ago 
> were re-badged M/F. The LRMs were lifted from the text of PL22.4, well 
> under one of its previous names. Essentially the only difference is that

> the "IDE" feature was Microsoft, viewing things through the Programmers 
> Workbench and programs were compiled/linked using the MS Makefile
feature. 
> As V 4.0 was released MS said "Don't use Comp-5 to store data". Then
when 
> they issued V 5.0 that warning became apparent - the package included a 
> glossy from an organisation called 'Micro Focus',(whom I had never heard

> of), where at a price you could switch from MS to MF using MF Version 
> (DOS) 3.1.
>
> Now it is a BIG ASSUMPTION - if MF 3.1 has SQL, I think it's a fair bet 
> that MS Versions 4 and 5 also had that feature. If the user has the 
> diskettes for the compiler, without actually re-installing, it should be

> possible, going through the Setup program, which allows you to select 
> modules you want, to determine whether or not there is a module for SQL.
>
> I don't think Net Express Open ESQL would help you. Granted it's a menu 
> selection item in the N/E IDE, and although a separate sub-component it 
> must be fairly integrated with N/E, particularly the compiler to be able

> to accept the SQL family of RESERVED WORDS. It is not a separate module,

> but part of the whole N/E package.
>
> If you can establish the name/version of the compiler, then I would
think 
> that initially writing CSVs would be the way to go; then update a DB.
>
> Bill - can you add anything relative to how close MS Versions 4.0 and
5.0 
> are to MF Version 3.?
>
> Richard - we all know you are a pack-rat and don't throw anything away 
> :-). Did you use MS V 4.0 or 5.0 and have you got the manuals/diskettes
? 
> Can you expand/clarify on what I have written ?
>
> Pete, above is just a lot of background - hope it helps.
>
> Jimmy Calgary AB

Jimmy, thanks very much for your comments and the background, it was 
helpful.

I don't think we're going to go with a COBOL solution to this, running in 
the user environment. Definitely not for building their RDB. It is far
more 
likely at this stage that they'll outsource the whole problem.

(Probably to me, which is fine :-), and I'll just run the Migration
Toolset 
I already wrote, then ex****t the  generated and (possibly) loaded DBs into

whatever RDBMS they want to use in their environment.)

I can modify the Toolset to generate Load module executables that will run

in their environment, read the C-ISAM and generate INSERT statements for
the 
target table set. In fact, I probably SHOULD have done that when I first 
wrote the Load Module Generator, but I was so fixated on COBOL  at the
time, 
that I opted for a COBOL solution, using embedded SQL.

(It WAS about 8 years ago when I first wrote ISAM2RDB; both the Toolset
and 
myself have a come a long way since... Today the Toolset is rewritten in
C#, 
runs in the .NET environment, and utilises encapsulated components written

in both COBOL and C#, via Interop Services of .NET. )

Thanks again to all who contributed to this; it is very useful to get
other 
opinions on issues like this.

Pete.
-- 
"I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."