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Programming > Assembly 370 > Re: S/360
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Re: S/360

by Steve Myers <noone@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > May 31, 2006 at 09:16 PM

I don't think too many people will argue that S/360 floating point was 
"good," particularly single precision floating point.  I think IBM tried 
to get some numeric range at the expense of precision in 32 bit 
hexadecimal floating point.  I think the "4-bit ****ft is faster than the 
1-bit ****ft" argument IBM laid on us in the 60s was entirely specious. 
After all, IBM had been doing 1-bit ****fts for a good 10 years on the 
704 / 709 / 7040 / 7044 / 7090 / 7094 before S/360 came along.  Back 
when I understood this kind of math better (and S/360 was introduced) I 
tried to figure out these issues, and that was the conclusion I reached 
then.  Hardware was too expensive in those days for the IEEE trick of 
have a smaller range limit for 32 bit than for 64 bit floating point.

In any event, I wrote up this program -

FL       CSECT
          USING *,15
          LE    0,DATA4
          DE    0,E4
          STE   0,RES4
          LD    0,DATA8
          DD    0,D4
          STD   0,RES8
          DC    H'0'
DATA4    DC    E'.9'
E4       DC    E'4'
RES4     DC    E'0'
DATA8    DC    D'.9'
D4       DC    D'4'
RES8     DC    D'0'
          END   FL

When I ran the program, I got these results -

l (data4 res4 e4 data8 res8 d4)

DATA4  +.89999998 E+ 0

RES4  +.22499996 E+ 0

E4  +.4 E+ 1

DATA8  +.89999999999999999 E+ 0

RES8  +.22499999999999999 E+ 0

D4  +.4 E+ 1

l (data4 res4 e4 data8 res8 d4) x

DATA4  40E66666

RES4  40399999

E4  41400000

DATA8
        +0  40E66666 66666666

RES8
        +0  40399999 99999999

D4
        +0  41400000 00000000

Now, it seems clear some precision was lost up front, on the conversion 
of E'.9' to hex.  Of course, any reasonable rounding conversion will 
give me .9E0, but TSO TEST isn't always the greatest.  The double 
precision conversion seemed to do better.

When you convert the hex numbers to binary, you can see you have maybe 
lost 1 bit of precision, since the low order bit of the input was 0, not 
1.  The same is true of the 8 byte numbers.

Glen - this business of normalizing the exponent by ****fting the 
fraction does not apply with floating multiplication and division in a 
big way.  It only applies with addition and subtraction.  This is where 
S/360 single precision floating point really broke down.

Another goof IBM made with S/360 hexadecimal floating point is they did 
not do rounding.  Clearly, RES4 would be 4039999A if IBM had done
rounding.

glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> robin wrote:
> 
> (snip)
> 
>> The precision of S/390 is 21 bits or 53 bits.
>> You don't lose this precision on division by 4.
> 
> The precision is between 21 and 24 for short, and between
> 56 and 53 for long.  The algorithms for the most libraries
> were designed not to lose precision unnecessarily.
> 
> 0.9 has 24 bits of precision in short float.  Divide it by
> four and it loses two bits.  Multiply or divide the result by four
> and you don't gain them back again, though the bits are again
> available.  That is precision loss.
> 
> -- glen
>
 




 79 Posts in Topic:
Re: S/360
hancock4@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2006-01-13 09:25:48 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-13 15:26:11 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-13 23:28:44 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-13 19:30:47 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-01-14 02:00:48 
Re: S/360
"Donald L. Dobbs&quo  2006-01-14 11:53:14 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-15 14:25:08 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-15 11:46:34 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-01-16 00:26:15 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-16 23:28:40 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-16 23:28:41 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-16 20:11:37 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-01-16 19:28:21 
Re: S/360
"Tom Linden" &l  2006-01-16 20:19:01 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-01-16 21:59:58 
Re: S/360
multicsfan <multicsfan  2006-01-17 13:01:21 
Re: S/360
Dan Nagle <dannagle@[E  2006-01-17 13:35:59 
Re: S/360
multicsfan <multicsfan  2006-01-17 21:09:17 
Re: S/360
Dan Nagle <dannagle@[E  2006-01-17 22:00:29 
Re: S/360
multicsfan <multicsfan  2006-01-17 22:11:17 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-01-17 19:11:38 
Re: S/360
multicsfan <multicsfan  2006-01-18 04:18:15 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-01-17 21:00:10 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-18 13:27:46 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-17 21:18:17 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-17 22:16:30 
Re: S/360
ime@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (R  2006-01-19 06:31:58 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-19 11:31:46 
Re: S/360
"Tom Linden" &l  2006-01-19 14:25:29 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-21 00:11:31 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-22 02:11:29 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-21 23:53:43 
Re: S/360
ararghmail601NOSPAM@[EMAI  2006-01-21 23:45:18 
Re: S/360
"Tom Lake" <  2006-01-22 07:27:13 
Re: S/360
ararghmail601NOSPAM@[EMAI  2006-01-22 02:45:39 
Re: S/360
"Tom Lake" <  2006-01-22 10:26:38 
Re: S/360
ararghmail601NOSPAM@[EMAI  2006-01-22 05:33:34 
Re: S/360
Bob Lidral <l1dralspam  2006-01-22 09:05:28 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-22 12:39:26 
Re: S/360
"Tom Lake" <  2006-01-22 18:07:39 
Re: S/360
Bob Lidral <l1dralspam  2006-01-23 01:47:44 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-22 12:37:49 
Re: S/360
"R. Vowels" <  2006-01-24 14:25:07 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-02-02 23:36:41 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-01-19 20:14:04 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-20 00:14:17 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-20 00:14:16 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-21 00:22:49 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-01-22 02:11:31 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-21 23:59:22 
Re: S/360
"R. Vowels" <  2006-01-24 14:25:08 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-04-08 03:34:11 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-04-07 22:16:04 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-04-10 01:05:09 
Re: S/360
"Tom Linden" &l  2006-04-10 06:34:38 
Re: S/360
Binyamin Dissen <posti  2006-04-10 19:51:31 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-04-10 17:48:54 
Re: S/360
"James J. Weinkam&qu  2006-04-10 23:15:40 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-05-25 12:58:54 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-05-26 17:41:26 
Re: S/360
"James J. Weinkam&qu  2006-05-27 05:12:32 
Re: S/360
ime@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (R  2006-05-27 08:45:31 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-05-25 12:58:54 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-05-25 13:49:57 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-05-29 00:37:01 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-05-28 17:41:27 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-05-30 00:03:10 
Re: S/360
Steve Myers <noone@[EM  2006-05-31 21:16:13 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-06-01 22:06:11 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-06-02 23:27:59 
Re: S/360
Steve Myers <noone@[EM  2006-06-03 12:19:30 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-06-07 10:58:32 
Re: S/360
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2006-06-07 13:59:32 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-06-10 22:47:44 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-06-01 22:06:11 
Re: S/360
"robin" <rob  2006-02-03 15:05:02 
Re: S/360
"Sven Pran" <  2006-01-14 01:32:19 
Re: S/360
"John W. Kennedy&quo  2006-01-13 19:49:54 
Re: S/360
multicsfan <multicsfan  2006-01-14 00:22:28 

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tan12V112 Sun Jul 20 17:36:34 CDT 2008.